Klaus Vollmer

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Posts by Klaus Vollmer

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  27

  If it turned out that JW's were right ...

  by sleepy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  yes imagine if after all the struggle and effort to break fee of jehovahs witnesses it turnred out that they were right all along.. the governing body were getting messages from god and were being used by him , proof came out that evolution was false.they found noahs ark and ancient manuscrips were found that proved the bible true.. also lasurus was still alive and well living in siberia.. the next thing we know religon has been banned.. there are signs in the sky and strange phenomenon.. we look up and see the moon turned to blood and the sign of the son of man appears in the heavens.. next to him is a flying pig.. we realise pigs don't fly .. we wake up sweating.. it was all a dream.. releaved its all over we get up for a new day.. we open the curtains, allwe can see is fire and brimstone.. we hear screams of tourture.. satan laughs.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  black holes are beyond the ivory tower
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  3

  is WTS a company or an association?

  by Klaus Vollmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the witnesses in europe get to hear the story, that "inc" ( in wachtower .... inc "stands for corporated association and not for a company based on stocks.

  in french it would be called sa, societe anonyme, what means "inc" on stocks.. does anybody have the ability to explain the whole situation.. thanks from the grand duchy of luxemburg.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  The witnesses in Europe get to hear the story, that "INC" ( in WACHTOWER .... INC "stands for corporated association and not for a company based on stocks. In French it would be called SA, societé anonyme, what means "Inc" on stocks.
  Does anybody have the ability to explain the whole situation.
  Thanks from the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg.
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  589

  MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.

  and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .

  after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk

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  Klaus Vollmer

  HELLO HAWKAW, this I read today in the LATIMES. You could make a followup regarding your activities:

  December 1, 2001

  COLUMN ONE
  Losing Faith and Lots More
  Mormons who quit the church find themselves ostracized by friends, co-workers and even families. Annual gathering offers support, shared experiences.

  By WILLIAM LOBDELL, Times Staff Writer

  SALT LAKE CITY -- It took 16 months for Suzy Colver and her husband to work up the courage to officially quit the Mormon church, worried about what would befall them once word of their defection spread through their Mormon-dominated town of Ogden, Utah.

  They didn't have to wait long. Instantly, Colver said, her family became the neighborhood pariah. She lost every one of her Mormon friends, even though she'd been a leader in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' prestigious Relief Society. She wasn't asked to volunteer at her kids' elementary school anymore. Her decision was so unspeakable, she said, that when her brother-in-law visited he was afraid to even acknowledge it, despite the coffee maker on the counter and bottle of chardonnay in the refrigerator--both Mormon taboos.
  
  "If Mormons associate with you, they think they will somehow become contaminated and lose their faith too," she said. "It's almost as if people who leave the church don't exist."

  Colver, a 33-year-old mother of three, was among a group of ex-Mormons who gathered here recently to wrestle with problems that plague some who leave the church but remain in Utah and other communities heavily dominated by Mormons: rejection from Mormon spouses, children and relatives; the disappearance of Mormon friends; the end of a social life; a sidetracked career.

  How, they asked each other at the inaugural Ex-Mormon General Conference, can you carve out a regular life within the immense shadow of the clannish Mormon church, which claims roughly 70% of Utah residents as members?

  "In Utah, the church has created an almost impossible box to climb out of," said Sue Emmett, the 60-year-old great-great-granddaughter of Brigham Young. She left the church in 1999.

  Tales of ostracism are familiar in close-knit, conservative religious communities. In certain circles of Orthodox Judaism, for example, families will consider a relative who marries outside the faith dead, even observing the Jewish mourning process. Some Latino mothers weep for their sons who turn their back on the Catholic Church. And the Amish banish anyone who leaves their faith from their community.

  But only in Utah and pockets of neighboring states does a single religion have such a dominant hold over nearly every aspect of society. Which was why Colver, Emmett and about 60 other heretics held their gathering at a symbolic place and time: a block from Salt Lake City's Temple Square, where 21,000 faithful Mormons had flocked to the church's 171st Semiannual General Conference. They told stories, often tearfully, of the prejudice they encountered upon leaving.

  One recalled volunteering to say grace at a Thanksgiving dinner, only to be stopped by her mother, who said, "You can't. I don't know what you'd say."

  Another expressed relief after moving out of state to a non-Mormon neighborhood: "It was so nice to go to the grocery store and know no one's going to look down on you."

  A third told of the pain she felt from her grown children, who believe she's been influenced by the devil: "They see me as an enemy, as a heretic and as a threat to their children," she said.

  In Mormon country--a strip of states from Montana and Idaho in the north to Arizona in the south--Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints members make up huge majorities in many communities.

  The 11-million-member church is one of the fastest growing religious organizations in the world, adding 40% to its membership each decade since 1960, church officials say. The church says it doesn't release the number of Mormons who drop from the rolls.

  Church Elder Tad R. Callister said the church recognized its shortcoming when it recently released its "Doctrine of Inclusion," which implores members to better embrace nonmembers--whether people of other religions or former Mormons.

  "We're imperfect people . . . [but] we want it to be said that we're the best neighbors in the world," Callister said.

  The author of the inclusion doctrine, Elder M. Russell Ballard, acknowledges that he occasionally hears "of members offending those of other faiths by overlooking them and leaving them out. This can occur especially in communities where our members are the majority."

  Ballard, a member of the church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said he's also heard about "narrow-minded parents" who won't let their children play with children who aren't in the church.

  "I cannot comprehend why any member of our church would allow these kinds of things to happen," he said.

  Most at the ex-Mormon conference said serious doubts about the faith's authenticity drove them away.

  Mormons believe "the one and only true church" of Jesus Christ was restored to the Earth by the prophet Joseph Smith in the 1820s.

  A primary source of attack by critics is the Book of Mormon, a sacred text for the church called "Another Testament of Jesus Christ." Mormon tradition holds that the angel Moroni--a resurrected ancient American prophet and warrior--led Smith to gold plates buried in a hillside in upstate New York.

  Engraved on the plates, Mormons believe, were holy writings by ancient Americans in "reformed Egyptian," a combination of ancient Hebrew and Egyptian hieroglyphics used by Americans who had first emigrated here from Jerusalem about 600 years before Christ. Viewing the plates through special stones and devices, Smith is said to have deciphered the writings.

  "It has no factual basis," said Steve Benson, a Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist with the Arizona Republic and grandson of Mormon prophet Ezra Taft Benson. "Once a crack of truth in the dam emerged, it wasn't long before the whole superstructure broke loose. Soon I was swimming in the intellectual ocean of freedom."

  Others, like Colver, say the church's relentless push for volunteer duty drove them away.

  Colver, a breast cancer survivor, said the pressure reached a breaking point one Sunday as she lay in bed after another a round of chemotherapy, unable to do much of anything. Even when she needed to vomit, her husband had to sit her up and hold the pan.

  She then got three consecutive calls from leaders of her church. They asked her if she was absolutely sure she wanted to give up her post in the Relief Society.

  "We just don't want to deprive you of the blessings," they told her.

  "There I was, lying in bed--sick, bald, scarred from surgery, and I don't know if I'm going to live or die," Colver recalled. "I told them, 'Go ahead! Deprive away!' "

  At turns, the three-day ex-Mormon event resembled a self-help recovery group, an academic seminar, a class reunion and an all-night college party.

  The former Mormons, from young adults to seniors, drank coffee and Cokes in the morning and martinis and beer in the evening, and the women wore sleeveless blouses--all against church teaching.

  "This is the second year I've had brown shoulders," said Lindy Parsons, a 34-year-old mother of three from Harrisville, Utah, showing off her tan. The first thing she did when she quit the church? "I went down to Victoria's Secret and bought some real underwear."

  Humor masked much bitterness. All participants said they'd lost major pieces of their lives after they walked away from the church.

  Parsons says her Mormon neighbors--nearly her entire community--shunned her. When her husband had a grand mal seizure, she said, a church official passing by warned a neighbor, "Don't enter that house. The man is possessed by the devil."

  Then she stumbled upon the www.exmormon.org Web site, a cyber-gathering spot for former Mormons created in 1995 to fill the social vacuum left after exiting the church. "It's a halfway house for many of us," said cartoonist Benson of the site that now gets 3,000 hits per day and has more than 600 e-mail subscribers.

  The exmormon.org group started holding annual get-togethers a few years ago in Las Vegas--"because it was the anti-Salt Lake City," one organizer said--but decided to get serious this year with a formal conference in the Utah capital.

  Because of family ties, jobs, familiarity or just plain stubbornness, many of the former Mormons have decided to stay in hostile territory and try to make friends--or at least live a peaceful life in a parallel universe alongside the church.

  "I want to be me and still be respected," said Maxine Hanks, who was excommunicated from the church in 1993 after publishing her book, "Women and Authority: Re-Emerging Mormon Feminism." "I'm tired of being seen as an outsider."

  Hanks said the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City next year has spurred Mormon officials to rethink their outreach to other faiths, which included the Doctrine of Inclusion.

  Critics acknowledge that Mormon leaders have been doing a better job in recent years of promoting inclusiveness. But nearly all of the ex-Mormons at the conference said they'd seen no evidence of it. They said their former ties to the church have put them, in the eyes of Mormons, in a different category than people of other faiths or even atheists. They suspect hurt feelings and a fear of associating with apostates contributed to the shunning.

  Santa Clarita resident Gaylon Harrison, 42, said that when she left the church four years ago, her congregation scratched her name from the directory, listing only her husband and three children. She said her Mormon friends passed her in the supermarket without a word.

  "They would literally turn their heads," said Harrison, who has since moved to Maryland with her family. "I was ready to say 'Hi.' All they had to do is look."

  Harrison said she also had problems within her marriage. She eventually told her Mormon husband that she would no longer share a bed with him unless he stopped wearing his sacred Mormon undergarments, worn day and night by the devout. She wanted a respite from symbolism.

  "That church was right there in the bed with us," she complained. He stopped wearing the underwear, and she quit wearing her "Have You Hugged an Apostate Today?" T-shirt.

  Though public rhetoric has softened in recent years, Mormons believe that stepping away from the church will have eternal consequences. Ex-Mormons are also excluded from major earthly events such as temple baptisms and weddings, where only members in good standing can set foot.

  "My sister couldn't attend some events [at the temple], and it hurts," said Joni Bown, a Salt Lake City Mormon whose sister quit the church. "Yes, I pray for her to come back to something that's so special to us."

  Rob Shiveley, 42, thought becoming an ex-Mormon would hurt his career in Utah's computer software industry.

  "The conversations on campus and at lunch at my company were all about the Mormon church," said Shiveley, who left the church after landing a new job in Portland, Ore. "I started to feel the pressure. I needed to maintain the perception that I was a good person and a good Mormon. The handful of non-Mormons were very much on the outside in the company."

  Because business is often conducted informally around church social activity, much the way other cultures conduct it on the golf course, many nonbelieving Mormons haven't come out to their family, friends or co-workers.

  One ex-church member asked a reporter to tear up any notes of his interview after he talked with his wife about the conversation. "This could really hurt us," he said.

  Those who keep quiet "don't risk alienation if there isn't an explicit rejection of the religion," said Tim B. Heaton, sociology professor at Brigham Young University. By not openly rejecting Mormonism, "all they'll get is, 'When are you going to come to church?' or 'When are you going to shape up?'"

  Many of the apostates still enjoy parts of the Mormon culture, especially the emphasis on family and moral values. "I want to be a Mormon like Woody Allen is a Jew," said one conference participant. "I don't want to be robbed of my Mormonism."

  But the all-or-nothing nature of the church leaves many struggling for a new identity.

  Because of the strict Mormon lifestyle, many ex-Mormons often experience a kind of delayed adolescence once they leave the church, experimenting with alcohol, drugs and sex.

  Christene Carol, 43 and mother of five, said she attempted suicide in 1999 after living "an insanely perfect life" as a Mormon.

  She said she's spent the past two years learning to live responsibly without the guidance of the church, though it's been a difficult road at times. She said she overdosed on Ecstasy one night. And for a short time, she took up shoplifting, though she borrowed $2,000 to pay back the merchants.

  "I don't expect the people in the church to understand, and I don't blame anyone," said Carol, a resident of Bountiful, Utah. "I've learned to live an independent life rather than a life of needing or seeking the approval of others."

  Maxine Hanks says she and others put up with the "scathing but subtle disapproval" from Mormons in Utah and elsewhere because it's important to "learn how to stay."

  "I make a difference here," she says. "I have a social responsibility to stay in the conversation. And we need to create diversity. Without people like us, there is no diversity."

  For information about reprinting this article, go to http://www.lats.com
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  15

  Ruminations on the Whole WTBTS Mess. Part 1.

  by LoneWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, folks,.

  hmmm.

  ive bitten myself off a pretty good chunk here, so bear with me as i try to figure out where to start.. two things id better say up front, though: none of this is meant to be in any way, a devaluing of the phenomenal work thats been done by anyone here on the board.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  tysk neij dansk
  lets eat smörebröd :-)
• 
  15

  Ruminations on the Whole WTBTS Mess. Part 1.

  by LoneWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, folks,.

  hmmm.

  ive bitten myself off a pretty good chunk here, so bear with me as i try to figure out where to start.. two things id better say up front, though: none of this is meant to be in any way, a devaluing of the phenomenal work thats been done by anyone here on the board.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  >>He was lamenting the death of a sister in California (as I recollect) due to refusing blood. He was saying that the death was totally unnecessary, as with the new technology using blood fractions, etc., there was a lot that could have been done to avoid it. <<

  I guess someone who does not give blood as donation has no right to receive any blood fragment.
  Blood donations are a social service for the community of mankind.

  Your suggestion to start a campaign is not old.
  THe was lamenting the death of a sister in California (as I recollect) due to refusing blood. He was saying that the death was totally unnecessary, as with the new technology using blood fractions, etc., there was a lot that could have been done to avoid it.
  Your suggestion to start up a new campaign is not worse.
  There should be available a download in different languages about the most actual things
  eg. vaccinations
  blood
  1933 declaration
  UN-scandal
  etc. so that facts and figures are shown.

  You will recognize - in other cases nothing will change
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  36

  Some things that annoy me about the WTS

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm still currently a jw myself and i'm serving as a minsterial servant in a limited capacity.

  (a few weeks ago i was vocal about the doubts i've had and the elders made the decision to allow me to stay on as a ms but without giving talks) .

  1. recently as in the last few years i've been paying more attention to the various members in the congregation and i've observed some interesting things.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  hello leander
  your points are very clear and I agree your information.
  it is funny but the GB has invented his "LIGHTMACHINE" which allows them to move and change doctrines as soon as they are opportune.
  I think that neither Jehovah nor Christ will be in agreement with this practice at it seems like the practice from the pharisees in the early days where Jesus said that they have taken place on Moses chair.
  I am fed up too when I recognize that they waste their dear time in preaching while nobody is interested in magazines that not motivate by people who have no drive because they are kicked to do some hours.
  the quality sinks, the quantity is multiplying - more helping pioneers but less result than the less hp's before.
  I have more and more the feeling that there in Brooklyn some concrete heads are busy to find a plan that someone is the last one who switches off the light.
  the Janus-Face of WTS is not to be hidden.
  Keep your faith in Jehovah and in his son - all other things will be put straight by HIM
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  4

  Vincent's Underground II

  by Seven in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  hey {{{crew}}} lol a little rocky horror for the drive home.

  it's snowing here!

  let's do the time warp again!.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  indian summer

  have a look around you
  there is a world so fine
  green leaves are disappearing
  coloured ones do shine

  theres colour in the mountains
  there s colour in the wood
  colours give us their sign
  that time is changing good

  past are spring and sommer
  past is harvest time
  past is too my true love
  cause she s gone by time

  years were coming and going
  so I do my dear
  times are rahter running
  now come time to fear

  you have lost your spring time
  summertime of life too
  now you are in the autumn
  do you know where you go to?

  have a look around you
  see the coloured leaves
  autumn is a good time
  share it without grieves

  enjoy all your living
  think about the past
  think about the future
  about things that last

  dont forget your first love
  the one now is with you
  she is like a white dove
  fresh like morning dew

  well enjoy your living
  full of presence here
  and you see the challenge
  life does give you dear

  you are piece of heaven
  also piece of earth
  you are realy even
  part of universe

  and if you once breathed out
  your last wind of life
  be ensured you still are
  present there in time

  cause time is bound to subjects
  time exists by things
  without any atom
  time does not exist

  aware of just this topic
  aware of time and life
  beware all your good hope
  universe is life

  okidoki 7o9
  greetings and dont shake your hips too much
  be a magnet and pull the other crew into your sensefull garden
  Santa Klaus
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  35

  That Damn Nov. 22 '98 AWAKE!

  by Dino in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  check out the second entry under what was submitted for the un's approval.i hope this works!.

  < http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm.

  look at the second entry!!.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  amazing

  Volga-Villages from an ancient empiress down in old crooklyn
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  61

  Elder School Summation

  by messenger in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  friday.

  well sad to say it was not revelations of sweeping reform or "new light" on caring for the flock.

  the first day was primarily rehash of old stuff.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  okay guys,
  very soon the WT-study will last 2 times 15 minutes and the public talk too. or am I wrong?
  we have no advice in the scriptures hhow often and how long we have to keep any meeting
  and half an hour is also an hour, isnt it?
  the work is declining by equal increasing.
  the inflation of arguments is setting fire under the ass of the deciders.
  sometime I have the feeling that the emotion in the KH is getting more and more icy.
  time is life
  I dont want to spend too much of my life in sitting, repeating and listening to people who speak about preching yet being unmotived by themselves as elders, ms or publishers.
  all keep their action on a small flame but
  keep their utterances as if they are a vulcano

  may be a volcano which sucks water
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  5

  How Many Liars In Norway?

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many liars is there in norway, canning themselves jehovah's witnesses?.

  the question is interesting.

  these are the numbers of jws the norwegian government payed for in 1999 and 2000:.

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  Klaus Vollmer

  money rules the world , dear Kent
  and money makes the tower watch.

  so dont worry - in any case they teach water and drink wine,
  not trusting on Jehovah but on their lawyers
  who twist the right in the sense of the words of our Lord and Savior.

  Why dont you work out a file wherein all scandals on politics are treated
  like UN, Malawi, Mexico and Thrid Reich (1933 declaration, which is
  undressing their real position of opportunism?
  This should be kept in the most interesting languages English, French German, Spanish and Portuguese to stay as download available so everybody could rpint his "testimonials" using in his discussions or even sending to the newspaper.
  Greetings from Luetzeburg